Name: HR Tech 2025: Bold Bets, Big Shifts, and What’s Next for TA Webinar
Uploaded: 2025-09-23T19:18:02.315Z
Duration: 1 h 12 s
Description: HR Tech 2025: Bold Bets, Big Shifts, and What’s Next for TA Webinar

Transcript for "HR Tech 2025: Bold Bets, Big Shifts, and What’s Next for TA Webinar": Hello. Welcome. Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's session. I'm Stephanie Manzelli, chief people officer at Employ, and today, I will be your moderator. Thank you for joining us as we unpack the five game changing trends coming out of HR Tech 2025. We have just come off a problem week in Vegas, and our goal today is simple. Filter the noise, share what really matters, and translate it into practical takeaways for your talent acquisition strategies. So we still have people joining us. But to kick us off today, I'd love to know, did you attend HR Tech in person? Did you attend it virtually? Not at all? Maybe this is your first time even hearing about it. Drop it in the chat. Or if you were there, share your your favorite moment. Great. While you're doing that, we're gonna go first forty minutes talking through the five biggest takeaways from HR Tech, and we will absolutely be leaving time for q and a at the end. Today, we have a double win panel, which makes my job easy, but also a little confusing. So first up, I'm gonna introduce Ben from LinkedIn. Ben missed the whirlwind in Vegas last week. Vegas is always a whirlwind. But as an integrated partner with Employ, his perspective is is a perfect fit for today's discussion. Ben, do you wanna kick things off and tell us a little bit more about yourself? I would love to. And hello, everyone. My name is Ben Olson. I lead up our innovation and solutions recruiting team at LinkedIn, which is kinda fancy corporate y speak for our, Center Rack Post for Project and Program Management. My team basically focuses on anything that's not directly recruiting related in terms of hiring, but we do everything kind of related to hiring. So, project management around talent attraction, technology projects, kind of things of that nature. I've been at LinkedIn for about eight years. I'm actually based remotely out of Austin, Texas. And when I'm not busy at work, I have three young girls, four, eight, and 10 that keep me pretty busy at home. I can imagine that keeps you very busy. Ben, Eubanks. What about you? No. Good. As I can't one up Ben Olson, but I'm gonna have to right here to start us off. So, dad of five kids, four girls in the mix, and one one lonesome boy in the middle of all that. So, hey, everybody. So glad to be here with you. Looking forward to a fun conversation. I'm the chief research officer for Lighthouse Research & Advisory. And it's my job to look at the workforce, the workplace, surveying employers, surveying candidates, trying to figure out what's happening, what's changing in the space. And for me, a good day is getting it together and sharing on trends and pulling some of that data out to help all of you be better tomorrow than you were yesterday. So I'm looking forward to the conversation, Steph, and can't wait for some fun. Great. I thought it would be fun to to tee our conversation up today with a pre question to both of the bands. Before we jump into the trends, let's do just a quick pulse check. Going into HR tech, what did you expect to hear the most about, and what surprised you or kinda cut through the noise and and and that stuck out to you Ben Eubanks? Probably, the the agent conversation has been happening a lot lately. I've actually posted a video yesterday on LinkedIn about this because it's been so top of mind for me. I've seen every booth seem to have something about agents on it. Everyone's talking about this. Like, it's the latest thing, and it it really is. But the problem for me is that everyone's showing up with agent legacy answer to all problems. It's like going to the doctor and saying, hey. You guys tell me my symptoms. Like, no. No. No, Stephanie. Here's your agent. Here's your here's your prescription. You're like, wait a minute. I didn't even tell you a problem yet. And that's how it feels for a lot of that. So for me, I I am hoping today in the conversation, we can get away from a little bit of the hype and get back to the real problems that are being out there listening to us right now is trying to solve in their day to day work. Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree with you. I was also I was also at HR tech. I think two things. I think the programming this year was truly incredible. It spanned all areas of HR. But the thing that really stuck out to me is the the ethical use of AI. It's a drum I've been beating for a very long time. It's something that's, you know, aligned to our mission and and values here at Employ. And I was just so happy to hear so many practitioners and speakers talking about governance, the ethical use of AI, how you deploy it in your business, and drive utilization of it. That was comforting to me. I was really pleased to hear hear a lot about that. Ben, as a practitioner, I'd love to hear your perspective. Yeah. It's actually fine with both of you are touching on. It's, like, so close related to what our team leaders at LinkedIn, is focusing on. We actually recently just had our leadership off-site where we got together kinda work on our upcoming, road map for the year ahead. And as we're fitting through, like, the road map, what's put on it, AI came up, like, 37 different times and 42 different conversations. This is I was, like, splattered all over and we all we kind of align on, like, a strategic road map vision for the year ahead and we kind of, like, use this internal phrasing, like, the future of recruiting is now. Because we spent the last few years talking about, oh, like AI is gonna disrupt this thing or AI is gonna be have to, like, have to figure out how to teach our team to enable, you know, use AI to enable them around this workflow. And it's like AI, AI, AI. And it was one of those kind of like, moments where you said they're like, okay. Actually, it's no longer like AI will be impacting things in the future. Like, it is impacting us right here and now from both a candidate perspective, a recruiter perspective, a hiring manager perspective. And what are we doing as a leadership team to help prepare candidates, recruiters, hiring managers to be able to use AI for those that are already using it and how to actually recruit better. And so it's kind of just, I think, a topic that we're all circling around all the time right now. And I really love Ben Olson's Ben Olson's point around, like, getting back to actually what are the problems we're trying to solve. Maybe there's an AI component to it, but there's so many things that actually don't have an AI component to it. It's like trying to find the balance between two. So, again, like, very much, like, spot on for what we're struggling with inside the wall selector now. I love it. Before we move forward, I just wanna, remind everybody. We actually watched the chat during the webinar. I saw Ben replying in there. So by all means, jump in there with questions, jump in there with feedback. We'll have dedicated time at the end for q and a, but, we do love to see the engagement in the chat, so so don't be shy. Alright. So these, there was a soft question to get us started, but it does lead us kind of perfectly into our first trend. One theme that stood out was candidate fraud, and that's everything from deep fake deep fake interviews to credential misrepresentations. And it's at this point, it's becoming a boardroom topic. And so, you know, I'd love to hear Ben Olson starting with you. Why now, and and how should TA leaders be responding to this? Yeah. You don't have to go very far to find out stories of candidate fraud. You're not experiencing inside your own company, you can just go and learn go on LinkedIn right now and just, you know, do a search for candidate fraud and you'll see stories popping up left and right. It's one of those things I think all recruiting leadership teams are starting to actually think about and prepare for and, like, what is our stance and how should we protect ourselves against this and what would candidate fraud look like for us and how, how do we need to be thinking about this moving forward? A couple of things inside LinkedIn that our team is actually thinking about right now is that number one, like, there are so many different types of fraud out there and some key things might look like fraud but actually not be fraud. We actually had a lot of examples where we had recruiters come to us and say, hey, I had a candidate that showed up to their Zoom interview recently, but they had their own bot or agent that joined the room with us. Like, is that okay? What what should I do in that sense? And why is this candidate doing this? And so, we've actually had to develop our own kind of enterprise approach for what should our strategy be if a candidate, wants to bring in their own bot interview? Spoiler, we actually don't allow it. We have some kind of like phrasing or really getting recruiters for here's how you should handle this if that comes up. But just one of the many different examples out there. There's a lot of different approaches that leader different leadership teams are taking in terms of solving fraud. There's also tools and companies out there that specialize in fraud detection, but I've learned there's some really easy things that, recruiters can ask candidates to do to help prevent fraud. For example, you can actually if a candidate has a virtual Zoom background, you can ask them to basically restore their background to their normal camera view. Or you can take more drastic measures, and a lot of companies are actually returning to in person interviewing, which is something we're starting to dip our toes back in the water. After COVID, we basically moved fully to virtual interviewing and now realizing, actually, maybe we wanna do a final on-site check and make sure we get a a real person in the room for the real interview. So just a lot of different stories out there. I think it's kinda for us trying to figure out, like, what's the right solution for us and how strong, do we wanna go or not. What about you, Ben Eubanks? I'm I'm loving hearing hearing you talk about Ben because I I don't know how I would have felt when I was recruiting day to day if someone showed up with their their, like, their bot alongside them. Like, I'm being ganged up on in this conversation. It feels kinda strange. So data point here on the screen is one of the data points from the the research we actually collected earlier this year from employers like all of you. We had asked about some of the ways that candidates can cheat. And is it cheating? Right? Is using AI even considered cheating in some cases? Right? There are some times where, sure, you just rewrite your resume, use it to practice an interview. Some of those sorts of things we could all agree on, go for it. When it gets over into, oh, they're using it to, you know, give me the answer the answers during an assessment or something like that, that pretty much is over the line. And I made the, like, half joking, half not in the comments a minute ago. Who credential misrepresentation, we used to call that line. When someone lies about something on the resume, yes. That's that's what that really is. So in the data, what we see is employers, when we ask them what is what is cheating, what is fraud to you, number one, using AI to answer the assessment. If it's doing that for you, then that's not the person's back actual capability. So that's aligned, number one. Number two is giving them help during the interview. If they have a tool that shows up in the interview and gives them answers, you have not seen these. They actually are there running the background, and they can put it right here under their camera as a teleprompter and tell them the answers. So I look like I'm looking right at the camera. I'm very charismatic, and I'm just reading off the script, which, again, to me would be cheating. Or even employers said rewriting the resume to match the job requirements, even the person doesn't have that. So it says they've got all these things because they asked it to look like the job, and they don't really have it. So couple different flavors of what that cheating looks like. Ben, you get some great tips there. For me, one of the the things that I'm telling employers, at least for now until the AI gets better, is if you wanna figure out this feels kinda weird. I'm not sure if that's really a person or a deep fake video. Just ask them to do this. Ask them to do to do this. It's very hard for a deep fake to do it because it's not trained on the sides of someone's head. It's trained on their face. So if you're like, hey. Look up your your shoulders back and forth, and they can't do that, then good chances are that they're they're trying to use that to answer. The the problem with that is if they're doing that, they could be over here on another computer looking up answers, looking for ways to to beat your technical assessments, other things you're putting them through, just trying to get them through the paces. So different ways they can do it. I'll I'll finish with I don't. There are lots of candidates right now that are saying, hey. We're trying to figure out how to get a job because my family's gotta be fed. Right? I've gotta take care of my my my family, my kids, whatever else. I don't fault them for that, but we've also I do when they get over the line into the cheating side, like, I've gotta push back on that because I don't we don't wanna hire people who are lying to get the job because if they already have that behavior, it doesn't bode well for their future. Right, Stephanie? Yeah. Well, I think, well, both of those are excellent points, but there's also a piece of you're doing yourself a disservice. Let's say you land that job that maybe you were dishonest about in the process. Now are you capable of executing against the deliverables and help anchor those deliverables, and how do they impact the organization? We've actually had both of the the examples that you shared. I saw some comments in the chat, what happens if they're remote or or asking follow-up questions. That's actually something we've had a lot of success with, and we did hear about it at HR Tech was we've transitioned many of our interviews into the a live case study, and we use their critical thinking skills to add the next layer of the question on. So, so that's another opportunity. And then one of my recruiters, will ask people in the remote setting, you know, where they're located, and they'll do a quick Google search and ask them, you know, what's your favorite cafe? Where do you go for coffee? Do you do things locally? So they ask them questions to see, you know, are they, you know, just in the warm up of the the conversation to see how much do you know, and are you able to quickly quickly answer them? So yeah. So I think I think both of you are are absolutely spot on. As we think about the the second key trend, that that emerged through HR Tech, and and we're gonna see a pop up. It's responsible AI and governance. And so you're gonna see a poll pop up. For all of our audience members, what best describes your organization's use of AI in hiring today? You're not using it yet, you're exploring and piloting, you've widely adopted it, or you are unsure. I'm gonna give this a second so that we can get some votes up here. Looks like exploring and piloting is the the clear winner. Not using it is coming right in second place. It seems like many of our participants today are exploring it, which, you know, I think I think is absolutely, is absolutely where we should be at. I think the thing, you know, that we learned at HR Tech that AI was everywhere. We heard Ben chatting about that at the start of it. And and really interestingly, according to SHRM, 64% of organizations are already using AI across recruitments, across interviewing, across hiring. I'm curious for anyone on the call today, you know, in the chat, you know, what what have you found the most success with, in in which part of your process and or which part of your process are you are you exploring? So as we as we wrap up this poll, you know, the focus is shifting from AI hype to AI governance. So, Ben, Eubanks, what is your take on this? So we actually are embarking on a big piece of research around this to explore that to the bank staff. The the focus for a long time has been, let's just hype this up, and let's just talk about how great AI is. And I'm seeing more and more employers that are saying, you know what? We are the ones on the hook if this goes wrong. We've gotta be careful with what we're putting our faith in or, you know, because our confidence is misplaced. And so if any of you are thinking about tools, the the number one thing I tell you to look at is know your business problem really well, know what that challenge is you're trying to solve, and then AI may be the answer to that potentially. The other part of it is there's gotta be some transparency, some explainability. Just like if you put a junior recruiter on a task and they're going out there under their own power, doing something, bringing you back results, if you have an AI tool doing something like that, you've gotta be able to see the work that it did. What was the thought process? What are the outcomes? What's behind the scenes behind that decision or recommendation it's giving you? Because the more clarity you have there, the more confidence you'll have. You said, well, that's something we can't even, you know, base the decision on, or that's exactly how I would have done it. That gives you some measure of confidence on that, and so that's a key part there. One thing I'll tell you is when we look at the data on candidates, we actually ask them about if we're gonna use AI to screen you, which of these which of these terms or phrases would make you most, open to that? And it was very simple three set of options. Number one was just we're using AI for screening candidates. Number two was we're using AI, and it looks at your past skills and experiences. So explanatory, showing them how we're doing that. And the third one was we're using AI, but it's not looking at your age, your gender, and other similar factors. And candidates most prefer that third one over all of the responses regardless of their race, regardless of their gender, because it's protective and it tells them that AI is only looking at things that aren't going to harm me or aren't going to be biased against who I am. So for me, this has been a bigger focus, bigger conversation that's gonna continue to be for the next few months as we're really diving into this to understand how companies are trying to solve for it on the vendor side and how leaders like all of you are trying to call for it so that, we have a we have this really clear set of guidelines, expectations around what that means in the space. Haven't you been, Olson? What are you thinking about? Yeah. I I loved your framing around, like, trying to get clear of what problem you're trying to solve. I because AI, I think, could be such, like, a broader, ambiguous, you know, talking points. Like, they're like, use AI to help improve your other problems. Like, what does that mean? Like, I could view a billion different things. Right? And so I think, like, breaking down, like, what are the core, like, problems or core audiences you're trying to impact. From us, like, from a centralized point of view, we're very wary to, like, implement AI to to do anything, like, that is gonna be making hiring decisions in the process. So, like, obviously, from a legal component, you'd be careful of that. But I think we wanna make sure we're maintaining a bunch of agency for our recruiters in the process as possible. And maybe anything that feels like it's kind of like a black box technology where it's like, oh, we're gonna use this AI and just trust the AI and then it's gonna spit out a recommendation. You hire that person. We're pretty we're pretty, careful to avoid those type of technologies. But there are a lot of really cool technologies out there that can help, in a variety of ways. Some things that we're actually looking at or potting right now are is using AI to transcribe interviews. There's a lot of third party tools out there. Also, you can use Zoom or Teams or GoHi or whatever. And we have I've tried it myself, here recently. And it's one of those, like, kinda like before after moments where, like, I wasn't totally sure what I was gonna feel like to, you know, have a basic AI recording of my interview as I go to to meet the candidate. And I was like, a total, like, just amazing experience. I don't say I have to sit there and try and capture notes as I'm going and trusting that AI is doing great. Experianities are just, you know, capturing language and then being able to capture notes and share that word. And all I have to do is just focus one to one on a conversation with the candidate. So, like, that part's really cool. From a recruiter perspective, we're encouraging our recruiters and training them how to use Copilot to not just, you know, draft job descriptions, but then to draft actually interview guides, and focal areas, and case studies, and how to use AI to evaluate those, and then draft, like, follow-up questions for the interviews as you go. So there's a lot of different use cases out of those language models. And then, of course, at LinkedIn, we have our own products that we use, like our LinkedIn hiring assistant, which, which just recently released to market here about a month ago. And our team has been piling it for about the last twelve months, and our CEO will be the first one to tell you that our our TA team is, like, the toughest critic when it comes to using our own LinkedIn tools internally because we want them to work. We wanna be able to actually get a lot of the tech out of them. Initially, we kind of were like, okay. Are we getting a much value or is this is this driving a lot of impact as we look to use AI to supplement sourcing? And then as we've been working on this with our product team of course last year, now we're seeing a ton of value in that that we can actually trust the LinkedIn hiring assistant to go out there and source different candidate profiles. And that process is running in the background for our recruiters as they are gonna be the hiring managers and can show up the next day with 20 great source candidates that came from LinkedIn hiring assistant that we can then decide if we wanna move them forward the process or not. So, again, I think it goes back to, like, what's the problem you're trying to solve? Because there's 30 different AI tools out there for everything. Yeah. I think I think that's absolutely right. I'm loving the chat lighting up interview transcription. Loving seeing people, people using pillar and, and lever. Those are those are employee products. So excited to to see that. I I agree with what both of you have said. I think when it comes to AI governance, you know, as an HR leader and, again, this has been a drumbeat that I've really pounded kinda for the last year and a half. You know, you you have to have appropriate governance. As an HR leader, as a TA leader, you know, you you solve the right problems for your specific organization and yours and and and another orgs are not gonna be the same. But then also partnering with tools that you trust, I think, was something that that really resonated with me while I was at at HR Tech. You know, we there are many organizations that have governance recommendations. One of the things that that that Employ does is is we actually partner with IBM to embed Watsonx directly into our products, and that is always on AI accountability. And so as you're evaluating the AI tools that each of you are choosing to implement in your organization, what are the vendors offering you? That's a really great question that you should be asking all of the partners that you're considering considering working with, especially as this conversation is not going away. It's gonna intensify as more and more AI gets implemented across the whole HR life cycle. Shout out to the conversation in the chat. I think we should all be adding Millennium Falcon expert into our job descriptions, to help us weed out people that are using AI for, for fake job descriptions. I think that takes the cake for comments for the day. Okay. Great. So, so as we move forward to trend three, skills based hiring continues to gain traction, especially in sectors battling talent shortages. You know, at at HR Tech, we saw some major announcements around credential transparency and role based skills frameworks. As a practitioner, I wanna start there. Ben Olson, what what are your thoughts around this? Yeah. I promise this will be big. But hopefully, last time I bring up AI because I know there's so much going on, about that. I know. As it relates to skills based hiring though, there's a a initiative we have internally going on LinkedIn that, like, does a really good shot at the forefront of what our team is working on. And, just for contractor background, our CEO basically gave us, our company is a vision for moving forward that we wanna be quoted AI native workforce. So basically, AI is embedded deeply into all the work that our team does on a daily basis, and we're using AI just like we would use, you know, a messaging software or email or whatever else. Like, AI is kinda one of those core components that we're just thinking through that every employee needs to be familiar with of how to utilize leverage and get basic tech results out of. And so he has basically challenged us to, like, okay. This is our goal for down the road for moving forward is that we wanna be this AI native workforce. That actually means I want us to be doing an AI fluency assessment for every single candidate that we are interviewing at LinkedIn and move forward. We obviously we hire around four or 5,000 people per year at LinkedIn. You can imagine you extrapolate that over the thousands of thousands of interviews you're doing. So we basically are now working on developing a process for assessing AI fluency across every candidate, across every role at LinkedIn. And it really go back to the skills based hiring process of, okay, how do we do this fairly consistently so that we are actually developing a best in class approach to this? And so our internal team is basically working on a new AI assessment framework. We're building out separate personas for a technical, AI and hiring assessment. Obviously, if you are a developer, you're a data scientist, your level of expertise for AI proficiency is gonna be much, much higher than if you're in a sales or a marketing role. So we kinda have technical and nontechnical, personas that we're trying to assess and then different skills for each one of those. Things like, AI data integrity is gonna be one of the skills that we're gonna be focusing on or also practical application and those type of things. And then each one of those is gonna have a different skill level. Ultimately, our goal is to actually have a consistent framework where we can hand modules to hiring teams and say, you're gonna go and interview for this type of AI skill, and we're looking for this type of level, from the candidates. And at the end of the day, we wanna be able to take that data and go back and do a quality higher analysis on the back end and say, yep. We actually have found that candidate who come in with this level of AI proficiency are either more or maybe not as successful. And so we can go back and see, are we actually moving toward becoming an AI native workforce? What type of skills are really most important when it comes to AI fluency that we're trying to bring in and evaluate from day one? Great. What about you, Ben? You Eubanks? I'll try to avoid the the term that Ben Eubanks is has been married to for every answer so far. No. I've so the first thing I thought of is I had a chance to talk to a friend of mine who works for the FBI, actually. And he was telling me that this skill based hiring was kinda floating around. People were saying, yeah. Do we really need that here or not? I started looking at some of their hiring practices, and they realized, listen. We're hiring people who are you know, have this degree, have this background. Like, they gotta have these very specific narrow set of things as far as credentials, and they're hiring all the same people. And he said the problem with that, if you're in that sort of context, he said all those same people have the same blind spot. So they started actually shifting to more of a skills based who would have the certain overlap of skills in other fields that that we can bring in to help us cover some of those areas we don't actually realize we're missing a key a key insight or something else because we're all looking at things to the same narrow lens perspective. So to me, that was an interesting way of thinking about skills based hiring in another context of, could this help us be more that's more equitable, more bare in our hiring, but also cover up some of those gaps that we have that we don't realize because we all see things with the same sort of lens. At the HR Tech conference, to bring it back to staff, our our mad help week last week, I actually spoke with the, deck the deputy secretary of labor of The United States last week. Keith Sonderling was there on on-site looking at the technologies. And I don't know if there's ever been a time in the past where someone from the government was there on-site looking at the tools, the technologies, these resources that employers can use to try to hire and keep their people. And to me, that was incredible. That was so exciting to see him there soaking it all in. He spent, like, six hours within the floor. When I saw him, he was about to melt into a puddle on the floor, but still had the had the energy to to shake my hands shake my hand and say hello. But they're trying to look at the broader marketplace, what's out there, and from a higher level perspective, say, how can we see the skills that exist in our workforce? How can we repurpose those where we need to, where we have these shortages in some areas? How do we make sure that people are as well developed as they can be? Because they're thinking about this not just in terms of it like we do, like, we're competing against the company across the street, but they're thinking at the level of we're competing with the nation around the world potentially, and how do we make sure we're making sure our workforce is equipped for that, employers are equipped with the tools to do it. So for me, it's fun to see the different layers of this for that very, you know, individual organization level like the FBI example, all the way up to the governmental level of what skills we have and how do we make the most of that. There's been a there's been a lot of push around skills in the last few years, but some of the conversations have been so generic. Like, skills are good. And that's not really helpful for us to actually do anything, but to know what to do with them, whether it's factoring into how we compensate people, how we hire them, how we're developing them over time. That's what really gets me excited. Yeah. I agree with you. I agree with both of you a 100%. I think, you know, I I think this goes back to something that was said sort of in an earlier topic, which was really understanding your process, but really understanding your business, really understanding the roles that you're hiring for. At the heart of them, what what are the skills that are necessary to be successful, and and are they a laundry list of things on a job description, or do they align more closely with the candidate persona? You know, many moons ago, I used to staff entry level HR talent only with hospitality workers and restaurant and retail workers. I mean, that was it. I would go out and find them because if you can deal with customers all day long, you can do HR all day long. And so, you know, I think there were some very specific transferable skills that they did not have pedigrees in HR. They did not have the skill sets to to do entry level HR roles. However, at the end of the day, they had the core fundamentals, which were gonna be critical to our success. That is a micro version of what we're talking about, but there are many macros that that you can you can, bring up. That HR hire I ever made was someone who had worked for a fast food restaurant, and she just had the best attitude and was like, listen. I have clean bathrooms. I've done all the terrible things. Like, throw it at me. I dare you because I've done it all. So I I agree with you completely. Right? I can teach someone the skills. I can't teach that attitude. That's right. Shout out to anyone who's listening today that has has one of those backgrounds and is now in HR today. Okay. So, you know, I think there there was something that was said there at the end. You know, skills based hiring, it's not about filling roles faster. It's about widening talent pools and ensuring equity. And so that kind of brings us to trend four, which I heard, I think, Ben Eubanks mentioning in his response, labor shortages and workplace flexibility. I think, you know, even with tech innovations, we are still facing structural labor sort shortages in sectors like like health care, logistics, trades. And at HR Tech, the buzz wasn't just about those shortages, but it was also about how flexibility is the solution to those shortages. And so, kicking off, I'd I'd love to start with Ben Ben Olson to hear a little bit about about LinkedIn and and how how you're learning about this. Yeah. Flexibility is such a great operative word right now because I think that's something that leaders from all different, like, sides of of the business, from a TA component, an HR component, a business functional leadership component are looking for flexibility. I think employees are looking for flexibility too. One of the challenges that we've been trying to solve internally is actually with, growth being more limited, at least at LinkedIn comparatively where we've been on the last few years, We haven't had we haven't opened up quite as many roles as we used to. Meaning, I've been as quite many opportunities for internal employees to move the different roles that they used to. So we kinda there's this pent up demand inside the walls of LinkedIn for moving and migrating to different jobs. People are looking for opportunity to to transform their careers. And so we actually ended up launching an internal, job board, basically. But not for moving into a full position, but basically to find a bungee or a project or kind of just a growth opportunity that will help you take on new new scopes of work that'll help you expand those skills so you can solve some of your own talent gaps. Because when opportunities are limited, we wanna make sure that obviously the the roles are going to the best people. But oftentimes, when the opportunities are limited, you can't grow and step into those those career experiences that are gonna create new growth for you. And so, this basically internal, project job board is creating space for for internal employees to go, wow. Like, I've always really wanted to get into project management before. I've I've always wanted to actually be able to see what it's like to lead a marketing campaign. And so employees are now getting the chance to kinda do smaller projects and jump in as kind of, like support staff into that type of work. And then that's creating opportunity for them to build those skills and hopefully create more flexibility for their careers. So, like, that's something that's kinda happening from at least from a different perspective right now. That's fascinating. What about you, Ben? Eubanks? Hold on a second. Did you just call that bungees, Ben Eubanks? We call them bungees. Yeah. Jump in, do this for a little bit, and you come back to your your current role. So I just sat back, and you're like, okay. That was great. I learned something new. Okay. Cool. I've never heard that term. I love that. Okay. We are all we are all gonna walk out with some new lingo today. So for me, the the thing we're seeing broadly in the marketplace, I love the picture there of of LinkedIn, what you're dealing with, because that's I'm hearing that in some organizations where I have friends that are working trying to figure out the same things. Right? If we're not hiring as much, how do we make it more, exciting with people who are here and find ways to keep that excitement there, keep their vision on the future there at the company. So across the marketplace, we're seeing fields like healthcare and others that are getting a lot of the growth right now, a lot of frontline type roles. They just want someone put it that I love is it's standing jobs, not sitting jobs that have been on the move for the last year or so. So for all those of us that are probably sitting to do our jobs right now, those jobs have been in less demand. But the ones who are standing, people who are in hospitality stuff like you talked about with some of the other fields, those people are in high demand right now. So one of the things this this section is not just about the talent scarcity piece of that, although I've written a book on it, and I I feel deeply like the demographics say, yes. There's definitely a scarcity overall that's going to me. And not just demographically, but within some fields, you can't hire enough, like, trained welders in some fields to to keep your pipelines full. But the thing that I wanna share here, this flexibility component, when we actually ask the workforce, when we survey people who are doing frontline work, we ask them, what does flexibility mean to you? They know it doesn't mean, you know, working from their couch. They fully know that. So for me, that's an interesting data point because they start telling us the things we can do to give them that connection, to give them that support, and whether they're in that role or in a broader role like the ones you're you're working with there, Ben, at LinkedIn, more technical things, things like that, the people are asking for, number one, flexibility in how I do my work. Do I have a choice in how I get it done? You can give me responsibility for the what, right, the outcomes. But let me choose the how I get there. For me, that's a powerful one because all of us wanna feel like we have some measure of control in life, but we do not. We wanna feel like we do, and so having some autonomy there is powerful. So how I get more done? Number two is when I work. Do I have some choice over that? Talked to a leader recently, and I wanted to pull my air out because she was telling me about hiring manager at their company. It's like, workplace flexibility is so important to us. As long as you're here at 08:00 every morning, I don't care what you do. Well, that's not very flexible, is it? So when I work is a key priority for workers. And then the third one on the list is how I grow. Do I have a chance to bungee into another role? Do I have a chance to build a new skill? Do I have a chance to try something new? Can I spend some time with Stephanie, who's an incredible mentor, and learn from her about her experiences and help shape my future career? Do I have chances to do those? So how I work, when I work, and how I grow are the three big priorities around flexibility for the workforce. And if you're thinking about takeaways for you today, those that's a really good one. One of the most I'd add on top of that, Ben, is that, like, beyond the employer candidates looking for flexibility, I think flexibility for, like, workforce strategies is feeling more important than ever. Like, one of our challenges at LinkedIn has been the pace and, change within hiring cycles. Feels like it's more accelerated than ever right now. You know, what feels like there used to be cycles that happen, you know, an upcycle and downcycle. Would there be years in between? Now it feel like it could be a matter of months, if not weeks, in between these cycles right now. And so we've had to put in some of our own measures with from a, talent perspective at LinkedIn to figure out how do we navigate these ups and down cycles without having to try and restaff our team to basically go, okay. We're gonna double our team size. Just kidding. We're gonna cut it in half. Nope. Nope. Now we're growing again. So we've had to figure out solutions that actually, like, can help us basically, like, offset or supplement hiring demand to make sure that we can keep up with basically these, like, wildly varying swings that we're seeing from quarter over quarter, even month over month. And so flexibility, I think, from a workforce component feels like it's also been more important than ever right now. Yeah. I agree. I agree. I've seen this one other time in my career about fifteen years ago when many, many companies were doing a lot of temp to perm hiring for exactly what you just said, Ben Olson. So, you know, it's interesting. Things always come back around. I think what I what I heard both of you saying, frankly, is just, like, flexibility is into perk, and it doesn't necessarily just mean remote work. It it has become a survival strategy for TA and for employment brand in general. So deciding and determining what flexibility looks like for your talent is critical to to making sure that that you have a a successful staffing strategy. Before we run into the next, trend, I just wanna call out. We are capturing any questions in the chat that, that either we didn't directly type an answer to. We are capturing those, and we'll make sure to answer them during the q and a. Please keep throwing them in the q and a section, in the chat section. It's, I we'd love to see the engagement. So with that in mind, I wanna talk about my favorite trend. I know you both probably thought that it was gonna be governance because I do talk about it a lot, but, actually, trend five, one of the loudest conversations for HR and TA at HR Tech was proving ROI. Leaders are asking, how do I know these tools are delivering value? And at HR Tech Analytics, we're positioned as the bridge between HR and the c suites. This is my passion. So as we jump in, Ben Olson, from a from a practitioner's viewpoint, what do execs wanna see? Yeah. I don't think any trend relates more deeply day to day for me than this one specifically. For context, I part of my role is to lead up our talent attraction or employer branding team, inside LinkedIn. And that includes things like our social media content, our careers page content, all the things that I think most people probably in here are familiar with in terms of employer branding. Oftentimes, that team kinda like our internal TA marketing team is focused on putting putting content out into social space in particular and driving metrics that are like followership growth or engagement and click through rates. And as I try and translate I've learned, like, as I try and translate those metrics back to our TA leaders care about, oftentimes it's kind of an oil and water type of mix. Our our leaders are often telling me, hey, that's really cool but why should I care from a recruiting perspective if we have a thousand followers gained week over week on our LinkedIn life social channel? And so I've actually been trying to figure out, like, what how do I wanna frame this with both my team and with leaders? And I started, having some conversations internally with our own, marketing leaders from our, like, our centralized marketing team or for a brand component. And I asked them like, hey, here's one of the things I'm struggling with. How do you guys think about this? And one of the leaders that I work with here is like, wow. Like, that is not just a TA thing. That's not an employer branding thing. That's, you know, a marketing thing in general and something that her team often times struggles with. And she shared with me an acronym that I'll never forget which is HVA or stands for high value actions. And she's basically said, our marketing team tracks all those same basically engagement and performance metrics internally, but those are the things that she's ever communicating back to the business leaders that she's working with. She's working on HVAs or high value actions to focus on what are the most important business outcomes that the marketing her marketing team is trying to drive. In her case, it was oftentimes, like, trying to get, diff new users to download the app or new users to, complete their LinkedIn profile, things like that. And so she was basically saying you need to go on the line on what are the most important high value actions that your team is actually trying to drive. So I went back to my team and those are some of the things that we're basically aligning on internally now. It's okay. Instead of followership growth, we should be looking at how many qualified candidates. We're actually moving into, our maybe like a higher higher priority pipeline for, like, AI talent, something like that. And now I'm communicating those metrics back to our team leaders and, like, it's gonna go, oh, the lights are not coming on and we're not speaking the same language. And so I think it's basically that the slides goes here, like, going beyond those core vanity metrics that might be easier to refer for on, but instead focusing on the right outcome metrics that are, again, the things that the leaders care about the most. I love that. Just appreciating. Now I'm basking you now for the one second, Dennel. I'm like, that was so good. I I love it. I love it. So how about you shared, like, here's the master class, and I did this well. Let me tell you the first time I did this the complete wrong way and with the lessons that I learned from that. So years ago, I was an HR leader, worked for an organization, and I hated one of our talent processes so so much. And so I went through the trouble, looked up, found some technology that I thought we should invest in, did all the the analysis or thing else. And when I showed up to pitch it, my pitch was, this will definitely make my job easier. And as you can all probably laughing laughingly knows, I did not get investment in that. I did not get support for that. They said they were like, this is your job. Get back to it. And so I learned the hard way. You can't show up like that. If I'd showed them, hey. Listen. This is taking away from billable hours. This is taking away from our ability to serve our clients because it's just dragging their time down for our our team. We could have probably made that happen, but I learned the hard way. Don't just don't start it that way. So, Stephanie, one of the things I'll have to get with you after this because you will love this so much. We did a study this year on data driven HR practices, and we looked at the companies that were successful, that were doing well there, versus those that were still trying to get there, that were struggling. And the thing that I want to really understand with this is we're told, hey, we'll just measure these things and then measure them more often and report on them more often. And that's not the answer typically. There's a couple other things that you need to be able to do as well. And the part of this research that was so fun to me is we didn't just survey leaders like all of you out there, talent leaders, HR leaders. We also surveyed some business leaders outside of our bubble to ask them about their perceptions of how we're doing with this. And probably no surprise, we asked about, hey, is your team doing a good job of sharing stories using data? They're like, not so much. Generally as a community, we're like, we're we're doing great, but they were they didn't really think we're doing as well. So the the big takeaway for me from that, you share an acronym, I'll share one then. So the LIFT framework, l I f t, that's the framework put together out of this research that covers the four key elements for companies that were doing this well. They had four things in common. Number one, they had leadership buy in. They had people that actually believed in the value of the work that we are doing in our circle, and they've been coaching them like you were talking about, like, get to the HVAs. Right? We're coaching them, guiding them, supporting them, but they're investing in their success. Number two, their teams are bringing insights, not just data. They were showing up with here's more charts, here's more graphs, go and read them all and consume it and figure out what I mean. But, hey, I heard you talking about this key thing that's important to the business, and here's an insight from the data that you can use to make a decision. That's the key difference there, and that was a big priority there. Number three was frame the narrative. I think you actually use the word frame then. I was listening closely. I think you used the word frame when you were talking a minute ago because framing narrative, capturing that in a story is so critical. Just showing up and presenting something doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be received the way we hope it will be. And I've been there before trying to trying to share information in a way that I want others to feel the same urgency I feel. If it's not wrapped in a story or you're not framing the narrative properly, then it's not gonna land. Then lastly, technology enabled. The the thing that I found to be true is no matter how much effort, time, resources we wanna put in this as individuals, none of us have the the bandwidth to do this really well. The tools, the technology, the data you're getting out of your systems, that's gonna help you put these other pieces together and package that properly. So l I f t is the is the lift framework there. And, Stephanie, I know is your you you probably like getting giddy over there listening to me talk about some of these things. I'm betting. I'm betting you don't show up to a leadership meeting with just hugs and hopes. You probably show up with some data if I had to guess. Well, I am a good hugger. So, I think No no shade there. Every h HR person's a good hugger typically, but you gotta have more. Yeah. No. I agree with you. I'm loving this. Yes. I'm a big, big, big geek for data. I plus one to everything that both of you said. I really loved Ben Olson, how you were chatting about translating the the marketing metrics into HR metrics. I'm a big believer in translating our language. So, you know, if you were to talk to any of my my team, you you'd hear me talk about hiring talent in terms of CAC and ELTV. Right? Like, long term value, but, like, employee long term value. We talk about and translate the metrics associated with human capital. The way that the business essentially starts to talk and translate about their successes and where are our value creation stories. That narrative is critical. Right? Why does somebody care about this? Contextualize your data. Don't just say my time to fill is x. What is the context around your time to fill, and what does that mean to ramp time and revenue generation? Those are the things that really help, the business kinda understand the the value of the the TA function and the HR function in general. You know, from from my perspective, the mandate is clear. Talent leaders need to be able to show hiring's business impact with data. A a side of hugs is great. I do love a good hug, but, the data data is critical. So so I wanna spend a little bit of time looking ahead, but, you know, before we close and move on to q and a and story time, you know, I wanna I wanna give another goal. So you're gonna see one pop up on your screen. What is your number one priority in 2026? Faster hiring speeds, using AI responsibly and transparently, scaling skills based hiring, proving our ROI with better analytics, internal mobility, or employer brands. I would love to hear, as many voices as possible in this poll. Looks like we have some faster hiring speeds, using AI responsibly has taken the lead right now, proving ROI. Love it. The thought, Steph, how would you answer this? Oh, how would I answer it? So, you know, I think at Employ, within my organization, I think, you know, we, obviously, we are in a a TA technology company. So I'm gonna put that to the side. But I think as we continue to implement AI across our entire business, I think responsibility and transparency is incredibly important. You know, for us, as I think as an HR leader, a neutral HR leader, it's something that I have personally invested education in, finding out what other tools exist out there. What about you, Vince? What is what is your top priority? I can jump in. I and I'm actually gonna totally cop out. I I was looking over, like, which one of these poll questions is mine? And mine's just like, I'm tying those those questions back to actually Ben Eubanks last point around, like, the need to show up as basically strategic partners for the business that we're supporting. I think that's actually, like, really my biggest focus for this year is how do we make sure that our TA function is shifting from, like, a quote delivery function in terms and transitioning into a strategic business function. Because I feel like getting the hiring results are now table stakes, and TA leaders are being asked to do so much more. Oftentimes, they're being asked to influence product road maps to drive AI enablement, to figure out how to design new workflow strategies, all those things. And I I think each one of those whole pieces kind of speaks to this broader need of how are we showing up and becoming strategic partners for businesses that we're actually supporting and not just showing up and saying, cool. Like, what role do you need our team to fill? We're gonna go and do that. Because that is for sure, a massive priority, but it's not the only priority. It's trying to balance out everything else on our plates. And you bring up such a great point. So, Ben Eubanks, I'm gonna phrase a question as a piggyback off of Ben Olson. So as you look ahead in the next twelve to eighteen months from now, what signals are you seeing? Where do you think Tia is gonna be? Well, that is a perfect piggyback because, to Ben's point there, one of the things that has been a theme in the last, what, the last nine months and will be for the next for us this year. Our big theme this year is proactive, not reactive. So much of what we do is just responding, reacting then, whether it's, hey. I need this job filled. Sure. Right? We're we're willing to do those things, but the real value isn't doing that thing. It's thinking ahead to what they need before they even ask it potentially and being able to show it proactively for our our business partners and everything else. So that's one thing is really thinking about how to be more proactive is a priority that I think we should be carrying forward long term. And if you want a book on that topic that will give you some big ideas, Upstream by Chip and Dan Heath really dives into that really well. And then for us next year, our theme is, for me, this is gonna feel weird because I have just finished artificial intelligence for HR, the third edition. The book comes out next week. It's less than seven days away. And yet I'm gonna talk about next year being the year of human work, really focusing on the human side of things because if AI is stripping out things and AI is doing parts of our jobs and every company, snap your fingers, every company has the same technology stack, the differentiators are people. What they can do, the energy they bring, the passion they show up with, the ability to explore within the realm you're giving them to do good work. For me, I think that's the the next horizon we'd be really thinking about, and we can transition that into, like, key recruiting priorities, everything else. But for me, it's not just AI at all costs because any relationship that I've ever had was not built purely on speed and efficiency, and that's what AI is all about. The data we have, just this year, we collect some data, and we found that candidates told us they stay connected to the person to help recruit them for up to a year or even longer because that relationship is so powerful. The relationship, the connection, not the tools they use to speed up the hiring process, but the connection they have with the person. So how do we use these things? Yes. But not to replace the human, but spend more time connecting more deeply with other humans like we are here. I've enjoyed so much. One more step and actually sharing. It's one of you been also about how you're sharing about your work and the things you're doing. That's what really matters, and that's what I'm gonna encourage us all to do. Love it. I love it. I want to, I wanna get us to some q and a. However, by popular demand, Ben Eubanks, you threw in the chat something about a story about manufacturing. So let's kick off our q and a with some, story Yes. I'll do this really quickly. So we're talking about flexibility, importance of that, and one of the hardest things to flex on sometimes is time schedule, things like that. Those are very fixed around a business process. And so there's an organization I ran across recently in the manufacturing space, and they had a daytime shift they could not fill. It was they were always struggling. They get people that they thought could bring on, then the people would would bail out once they found out the schedule. And started really digging their data, and they found, well, it's because it requires them to they can't drop their kids off at school. They can't pick them up. So they their their team said, why don't we try something crazy? So they started doing what they call their parent shift. And so from, like, nine to two in the afternoon, shortened shift, they let people work that shorter time period, not a full eight hours. And what they found immediately, they filled the shift. They had a waiting list of people that wanted to take a slot as soon as one opened up, and that shift was just as productive as all of the other ones were eight hours long because the people said, finally, someone gave me a chance. So some of those things we think are immutable, like work schedules and hours, and I saw some of the comments from some of you earlier saying, why are we now forcing people to do this? I don't know. But you see your stories like that where someone breaks the mold and does it in the best possible way. So just use some encouragement. It can be done, but it really you're gonna have to have some influence on your leadership to make that happen, and there are some, data points out there to prove that it can be possible. I love that. That's a great story. I love that. Flexibility in action, practical application. Love, love, love it. Okay. Moving over to q and a. Ben Olson, it's coming at you first. You mentioned that your team was hesitant to use new tools until proven. How are you measuring new tools effectiveness, especially AI tools, and what KPIs are most important to you? Yeah. One depends on the problem that we're trying to solve. But I I think I mentioned earlier, we're using a new tool to transcribe interviews. And what we're measuring on that is a couple major core points. One is we're trying to measure interviewer hours saved. And so we're tracking how many interviewers are at interviews are taking place overall, and then we kinda have a dashboard that's doing a back end calculation saying, okay. These interviews are typically done on thirty minutes or one hour scale, whatever it is. And now we're saving x amount of interview hours because we're actually no longer asking interviewers to spend fifteen minutes on average drafting their notes afterwards, and then it takes two to three. And so you can extrapolate that over the course of business. And then actually, you can if it's for sales related roles, we can see, okay. This now is actually creating opportunities for sale team members to get back on the floor and actually work on, you know, their core focus. And so we're seeing actually a value or impact driving towards business outcomes, which is revenue related. So, again, it kind of focuses depends on what you're focusing on. I would say to, like, for us, the the interview transcription piece, it's about time saved. And then we do feel like there hopefully is gonna be a quality of higher output of this as well. And so on the back end, once we're gonna, basically have the employees in seat for around six months, we're gonna go back and actually track, okay, a candidate that comes through this system versus our older system, what are we seeing in terms of differences for quality of higher output as well? Love that. That's great. Ben Eubanks, do you know, are there any third party organizations offering an ethical AI platform certification like SOC two or SSAE 18? Given the level of trust or lack thereof in the workplace, this seems very much necessary. So two different organizations I wrote about in the book that are trying to do something within the HR space specifically. I can't vouch for them because I've not gone deep into what they're doing, but Wharton AI and FairNow are two different companies that are trying to do this, trying to give us here's what an audit should look like. Here's what it should be like on the employer side when you're trying to evaluate vendors and see who's actually gone through the screening process, things like that. So those are two of the ones that I have have on my list to actually circle back with. I've mentioned in the book as examples of companies that are cropping up because it's a very real problem as the the question addresses. It's it's necessary. And we would love for every company staff to do, like, employee is done in part with somebody who's already got some governance in place there, but not everyone's doing that as you well know. I do. I do know it. Okay. So, actually, I want everyone who's attending today to take to the chat because I think this question is broader than just our panelists today. It's such a great question. Thank you, John, for asking it. Is anyone paying candidates for their skill assessment or take home exams? I've been receiving feedback that these take a lot of time and, not to be compensated seems unfair, I think, to the candidates. So we'll start with our panelists, but I would love to have the chat sort of, I'd love to have some collaboration in the chat what others are doing. I I can share from a LinkedIn perspective. One, I love the concept and definitely, very much aligned with the outcome of, hey. We wanna make sure that we are valuing candidates' times and not wasting them. I would say we although we don't pay candidates to complete assessments, we do try and make sure that we are being as fair as possible in terms of the time commitment we're asking out of candidates. And so we, over the course of last few years, have gone back and analyzed what's the right amount of interviews that should be scheduled or or required to be scheduled in order to get to our own decision. We've gone from some instances of, like, 10 to 11 interviews down to three or four on most cases. And so I think, like, saving interview interviewee time is super important. Also, we do compensate for things like travel, of course. But, overall, I'd actually love to find out if other companies as well are are constant compensating candidates for their time to complete assessments or case studies. Let's say really quickly that I found companies that do not actually pay, but sometimes they do something like they give a a stripped down version of the assessment back to candidates as a a takeaway, as a leave behind to say, hey, Ben. You know, thank you for interest in us. You did not give a position, but we saw some strengths in you in this assessment you took, and you're welcome to use this in future job applications or in other places you're going. Just thank you so much for your time. And it gives you something that you're walking away with other than just a no. Then those candidates generally feel better about that overall. But it's not common to pay people for that. If you're asking them for, like, five hours, that's a lot of time for an assessment. But then you see things like executives that's that's actually an expectation that you spend a ton of time for that. So for lower level roles, the the lower the compensation, typically, the more frustrating it's gonna be if they're asked to spend a bunch of time doing that. We see some of that in our data overall in the market then. We saw that when we asked candidates, how many interviews is too many? How many touch points is too many? Like, three or more? Do you think more than three is overkill according to a candidate? But if it's for a job paying less than $50,000 a year, anything more than two is overkill. So they start their threshold for that goes down depending on how much they'll be making out of this job. Fascinating. Great question. Alright. So I wanna get two more quick questions in before we close out our conversation today. There was a question that came in really early in the discussion, and I copied and pasted it. So bear with me as I read it. Why can employers have a bot join the interview and record it, to to to to trans I'm sorry, to transcribe the conversations, but candidates are not allowed to do the same. Curious if this is just a security thing or a company info thing. Yeah. For us, it was the latter. For company confidential information being shared oftentimes in interviews. We didn't want that information to be live living on an external server with another tenant somewhere else. And so we ultimately felt like we should be the owners and proprietors of all our data. So we said no no external bots. If there's gonna be a recorded interview, it'll be done through a LinkedIn system. Right. Yeah. That that's what's going on my guess right there on the on the coverage there. And the other thing I'll say is this is an interview the company's doing. If you want to take notes or if you said, listen, I I usually like to keep up with the notes on these things. Like, there's nothing that stops you if you're doing it virtually from turning your phone on recording a conversation. Like, that still can happen, but I get that the company has to protect those sorts of things. And so if you ask for, maybe, can I have a sanitized version of this back? They probably would say no. But it is a weird, interesting sort of double or double standard, maybe if you wanna call it that. It's a company process. So number one, they get to say what they're gonna do. But if a candidate's asking for those sorts of things, and we can use that to give them some coaching back or something, I would not put that out of the question for the future, what's possible with the technology. Right? You're talking about the different value you can get from, interviewing tools then, and that could be a future thing potentially in this. I I will share this really quickly. We just feel like so in the interviews we do transcribe, we do offer the candidate the option to get the interview transcription back. So, like, we're not trying to, like we're we won't be happy to share data, but, ultimately, we will if there's confidential data in there, then we'll make sure that I've spread that. Great. I'm gonna end on this q and a, and I'm gonna answer it. Claudia, thank you for asking this question, and thank you for the thumbs up. Would love to know what the best note taker out there is without actually recording the video. Look no further than employees interview companion. Give me a call. We're happy to to talk to anyone who's interested. Okay. There are many out there. I'm I'm only joking, but we do offer a really incredible tool that does have, IBM Watson x governance wrapped around it. I do wanna wrap this up before we let you go. We have a couple of resources available in the docs tab, which we'll also include in the follow-up email from today's recording. Lastly, we're not gonna share these results, but I just opened up a final poll. Which of these would you like to learn more about after today's session? Employees ATS platforms or AI companions, best practices from Lighthouse Research & Advisory, LinkedIn's latest TA insights, or none at this time. As we're closing us out today, I just wanna thank you all for taking time out of your morning, your afternoon, your evening to to join us. We hope that this gave you some actionable insights to take back to your teams. I also wanna thank my partners in crime, the Bens, for today's discussion. As always, it was, enlightening, and I, you know, I truly enjoyed myself. Have a great day. Thanks for joining us.